{"id":28059,"date":"2018-08-24T19:53:50","date_gmt":"2018-08-24T19:53:50","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/c4isrnet\/uncategorized\/2018\/08\/24\/former-nsa-cia-director-on-cyber-facebook-and-hacking-back\/"},"modified":"2026-08-08T18:26:56","modified_gmt":"2026-08-08T18:26:56","slug":"former-nsa-cia-director-on-cyber-facebook-and-hacking-back","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/c4isrnet\/home\/2018\/08\/24\/former-nsa-cia-director-on-cyber-facebook-and-hacking-back\/","title":{"rendered":"Former NSA, CIA director on cyber, Facebook and hacking back"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

Former head of the NSA and CIA Michael Hayden sat with with Fifth Domain Aug. 20 to discuss cyber in the Trump administration, threats from Russia and China, Facebook and the issue of hacking back.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The transcript has been lightly edited for clarity.<\/i><\/p>\n\n\n\n

FIFTH DOMAIN:<\/b><\/i> I first wanted to ask about America\u2019s cyber strategy. What are the things that you see the Trump administration doing right in cyberspace, and what are the things they are doing wrong and need to work on?<\/b><\/p>\n\n\n\n

MICHAEL HAYDEN:<\/b><\/i> I thought they picked a very strong team originally with Tom Bossert and especially Rob Joyce. And, if you recall, as we went through the first three months of the administration in what I would call \u201cexecutive order hell,\u201d the executive order on cybersecurity was patient, thoughtful, measured and broadly cooperative. They put drafts out, invited comments and so on. All good things. And then when John Bolton became national security advisor, he fired Bossert and then Joyce left within a week or so. And then by in large the positions have been abolished. I mean you don\u2019t have the dedicated structure you had before. That worries me a lot.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Now look, I\u2019ve heard from some people who are very smart, informed and well intended. There may be less to what I just said than meets the eye, that there are a number of folks on the National Security Council who are cyber smart, and so on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But, boy, you had two good people; boy, you had a structure; boy, they seemed to have been performing pretty well; and now I don\u2019t see much. So that\u2019s one effort.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The second, this is an administration far more comfortable with American industry than the Obama administration.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I mean it\u2019s a business-friendly administration, it just is. In the cyber realm, that also gives me reason for hope. I do think our core line of defense in defending American information networks and operating systems is the private sector. So a government more inclined to let the private sector go, cooperate with the private sector, I think intuitively might have more opportunities than one that is distrustful of the private sector, not all that enthusiastic about the profit motive and inclined to regulate. It\u2019s a difference in tone. But given the importance of the private sector for what we are talking about, I thought this might open up opportunities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So you asked for good news. So, in column one, I was happier three months ago than I am now, or four months ago when Bossert was fired and Joyce left. In column two, I had some hope, although I have not seen a whole lot of delivery because, I mean, the administration is just inefficient.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There is no process. I mean, in the Bush administration, in the Obama administration, I could point to something to say, \u201cThis is the American cyber plan.\u201d And then I could argue about it. I can\u2019t do that here yet. I am just not sure what the direction is. I did understand it when Joyce and Bossert were there, because I read the executive order and, I\u2019ll get the details wrong, but around the time Joyce and Bossert were fired they were about to have some public meetings on cyber strategy. All those were cancelled. So we are kind of left hanging here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The third area \u2014 it\u2019s very recent, but there have been press accounts and that\u2019s all I\u2019m basing this off of \u2014 is that the administration wants to adjust PPD 20.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

FIFTH DOMAIN:<\/b><\/i> Yes, a White House official told me the same thing.<\/b><\/p>\n\n\n\t