{"id":31366,"date":"2020-11-09T18:34:10","date_gmt":"2020-11-09T18:34:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/uncategorized\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/"},"modified":"2026-08-08T07:05:31","modified_gmt":"2026-08-08T07:05:31","slug":"exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/","title":{"rendered":"Exclusive: Esper, on his way out, says he was no yes man"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As had long been expected, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/pentagon-congress\/2020\/08\/31\/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden\/\" target=_blank>President Donald Trump<\/a> fired<a href=\"https:\/\/www.defensenews.com\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/esper-fired-as-secretary-of-defense\/\" target=_blank> Defense Secretary Mark Esper<\/a> on Monday, cutting short what would have otherwise been his final months at the Pentagon, in anticipation of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/election-2020\/\" target=_blank>President-elect Joe Biden<\/a>\u2019s transition in January.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Delivered via tweet, Trump announced Chris Miller, previously the National Counterterrorism Center director, will step in immediately as acting defense secretary.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Esper\u2019s Pentagon exit had been expected for months, as tension both subtle and obvious bubbled with the White House. Some had expected that Esper would beat him to the punch with a resignation, but with the election coming up, it appeared neither side wanted to rock that particular boat.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In fact, Esper went nearly underground in the run-up to the election, last hosting a Pentagon briefing in late July. He continued to bring reporters along on several trips both within the U.S. and abroad, but declined on-the-record interviews. Former Vice President Joe Biden\u2019s apparent election victory temporarily quelled rumors that Esper would either resign or be fired, but in the end, the Trump administration decided it would rather finish out its last 10 weeks with someone else.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Speaking to Military Times in an exclusive interview on Nov. 4, Esper confirmed that he never had any intention of quitting, and though he expected the other shoe to drop, he didn\u2019t have a good read on when.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cSo what I\u2019m trying to do is, kind of, share my views and perspectives while they\u2019re still fresh,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He was also conscious of his legacy, particularly where it concerned the National Defense Strategy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cI guess my top line is, as I look back, I see it \u2015 you know, despite a series of crises and conflicts \u2015 and yes, occasional tension with the White House \u2015 I think we\u2019ve been really successful in transforming the department, implementing my top priority as the NDS, if you will, and then protecting the institution, which is really important to me,\u201d he said. \u201cAnd then &#8230; fourth, I should say, preserving my integrity in the process.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Dubbed \u201cYesper\u201d by his critics, including the president, he takes umbrage with the idea that he has been anyone\u2019s \u201cyes man.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cMy frustration is I sit here and say, \u2018Hm, 18 Cabinet members. Who\u2019s pushed back more than anybody?\u2019 Name another Cabinet secretary that\u2019s pushed back,\u201d he said. &#8220;Have you seen me on a stage saying, \u2018Under the exceptional leadership of blah-blah-blah, we have blah-blah-blah-blah?\u2019 &#8220;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>Protect this house<\/b><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Esper\u2019s tenure dovetailed with a historic shift in Pentagon priorities, from the decades-long war on terrorism to the \u201cera of great power competition\u201d \u2015 in other words, something of a new Cold War, but this time involving North Korea, Russia, and most importantly, China.<\/p>\n\n\n\t<aside class=\"smg-interstitial-link wp-block-smg-interstitial-link\">\n\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/commentary\/2020\/10\/22\/battle-force-2045-could-work-if-defense-leaders-show-some-discipline\/\" class=\"smg-interstitial-link__inner\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"smg-interstitial-link__media\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"300\" height=\"200\" src=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/201012-N-ZG607-1005C.jpg.jpg?w=300\" class=\"smg-interstitial-link__image wp-post-image\" alt=\"\" \/>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"smg-interstitial-link__content\">\n\t\t\t\t<span class=\"smg-interstitial-link__kicker\">Related<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t<h3 class=\"smg-interstitial-link__title\">Battle Force 2045 could work \u2014 if defense leaders show some discipline<\/h3>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p class=\"smg-interstitial-link__excerpt\">The U.S. Navy clearly needs to change its force design and operational approach, according to two analysts at the Hudson Institute.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/a>\n\t<\/aside>\n\t\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">More than anything, it\u2019s clear the NDS was his baby, and he was willing to go to great lengths to protect it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cEverybody\u2019s on board, until you start talking money and people,\u201d he said of the general support for the NDS. \u201cAnd then people fall off board, right?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Never was that more clear than in late July, when he announced a plan to withdraw 12,000 troops from Germany.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Some of them would be moving to other parts of Europe, while others could return to the U.S. to deploy on a rotational basis to NATO\u2019s eastern boundary, where troops had been training local forces for years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cAnd then you go and you start doing [combatant command] reviews, and you start moving things and pulling things out. And then they say, \u2018Oh, no, no, no, no, not that. That\u2019s too important. That\u2019s hard work,\u2019\u201d he said. \u201cThat\u2019s the stuff where you\u2019ve got to make the hard calls, where people say, \u2018Oh, if you do this, you\u2019ll break that.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The president had asked for 10,000 troops out of Germany, Esper said.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cAnd look, I can\u2019t control \u2014 I can only control what I do,\u201d he said. \u201cThe president\u2019s going to \u2014 he\u2019s very transparent in terms of what he wants. And he\u2019s been very clear about his views \u2026 I\u2019m not trying to make anybody happy. What I\u2019m trying to do is, fulfill what he wants \u2014 I mean, he\u2019s the duly elected commander in chief \u2014 and make the best out of it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Publicly, Trump had lambasted Germany for not paying 2 percent of its gross domestic product into NATO, and after the realignment\u2019s announcement, Trump promptly told that country they had it coming.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cSome of those ideas were ideas that were out there for years that folks just didn\u2019t have the courage or the willpower to propose,\u201d Esper said, explaining that he had taken the president\u2019s request and tried to carry it out as thoughtfully and strategically as possible.<\/p>\n\n\n\t<aside class=\"smg-interstitial-link wp-block-smg-interstitial-link\">\n\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/militarytimes\/news\/your-military\/2020\/10\/23\/are-troops-really-leaving-germany-its-not-totally-clear\/\" class=\"smg-interstitial-link__inner\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"smg-interstitial-link__media\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"300\" height=\"199\" src=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/635561362713487087-january-6-frontlines-10jpg.jpg?w=300\" class=\"smg-interstitial-link__image wp-post-image\" alt=\"\" \/>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"smg-interstitial-link__content\">\n\t\t\t\t<span class=\"smg-interstitial-link__kicker\">Related<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t<h3 class=\"smg-interstitial-link__title\">Are troops really leaving Germany? It\u2019s not totally clear.<\/h3>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p class=\"smg-interstitial-link__excerpt\">Some are waiting until after the election to see how to plays out.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/a>\n\t<\/aside>\n\t\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Throw in a nationwide movement for racial justice and the possible end of the war in Afghanistan.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When it came down to it, Esper said, he felt like he couldn\u2019t throw in the towel, no matter how dysfunctional his relationship with the administration became.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Like retired <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/pentagon-congress\/2019\/08\/29\/mattis-i-wouldnt-lead-the-pentagon-and-lose-to-isis\/\" target=_blank>Marine Gen. James Mattis<\/a> before him, Esper gave off the distinct aura of someone trying to be the adult in the room, the last line of defense between the world\u2019s most powerful military and a commander in chief who saw it as a political bludgeon.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cYeah, look, I mean \u2015 my soldiers don\u2019t get to quit,\u201d he said. \u201cSo if I\u2019m going to quit, it better be over something really, really big. And otherwise, look, I\u2019m going to do what I\u2019ve always done, which is try and shape it the best I can.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He did come close once, though, he said.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Following his testimony in Trump\u2019s impeachment proceedings, concern flared that the administration might try to<a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/your-military\/2019\/10\/31\/how-the-army-officer-who-testified-against-trump-could-end-up-in-a-court-martial\/\"> retaliate<\/a> against now-retired <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/your-military\/2020\/07\/08\/lt-col-alexander-vindman-who-testified-against-trump-announces-retirement-from-the-army\/\">Army Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman<\/a>, who had been a Ukraine expert at the National Security Council.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Months after his February testimony, something appeared amiss, as the Army\u2019s expected colonel promotion list had still not dropped. Vindman\u2019s camp alleged that someone in the chain of command was holding it up, though behind the scenes, both Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy and Esper had signed off.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cYou know, the Army had done all its due diligence on him. He was qualified for promotion. They asked me, you know, what to do,\u201d he said. \u201cI said, if he\u2019s qualified for promotion, do the right thing, put him on the list. I endorse it. We\u2019ll just let the chips fall where they might.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the end, Vindman decided to resign his commission and retire from the Army, with no public indication of whether the president intended to overrule Esper\u2019s judgment.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But if Trump had decided to punish Vindman, would that have been too far? Would Esper have resigned?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cYeah, no, absolutely,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>\u2018I think he\u2019ll do very well\u2019<\/b><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Esper, a retired Army infantry lieutenant colonel and veteran of the D.C. political scene who had worked in the Pentagon and on Capitol Hill, in the leadership of a conservative think tank and as a top lobbyist for defense giant Raytheon, appeared to have all the right bullet points for the job.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Though he had been Trump\u2019s third pick for Army secretary \u2015 the previous two had been undone by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/pentagon-congress\/2017\/02\/04\/trump-s-pick-for-army-secretary-drops-out\/\">financial entanglements<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.armytimes.com\/news\/your-army\/2017\/04\/26\/army-secretary-nominee-addresses-lgbt-controversy-on-facebook\/\">bigoted public comments<\/a> about the LGBTQ community, respectively \u2015 Esper took to the job like a grunt to a case of Rip-Its.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">His first order of business was to start slashing cumbersome administrative and training requirements, starting with <a href=\"https:\/\/www.armytimes.com\/news\/your-army\/2018\/04\/24\/the-army-just-dumped-a-bunch-of-mandatory-training-to-free-up-soldiers-time\/\">media awareness and a mandatory personal travel reporting system<\/a>, eventually culminating in the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.armytimes.com\/news\/your-army\/2019\/01\/14\/no-pt-belts-needed-during-the-day-on-running-tracks-army-secretary-says\/#:~:text=%E2%80%9C%5BHeadquarters%20Department%20of%20the%20Army,or%20dedicated%20physical%20training%20routes.%E2%80%9D\">downfall of the legendary PT belt<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That all began with a visit to the post gym at Fort Myer, Virginia, when a specialist on a nearby treadmill started blasting music directly from his phone to spice up his run.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cWhy don\u2019t you just wear earphones like everybody else?\u201d Esper recalled asking him. \u201c&#8217;My chain of command says I\u2019m not allowed to wear earphones while I\u2019m running,\u2019 Why not? \u2018Because I\u2019ll get hit by a car like that.\u2019 &#8230; And I\u2019m like saying &#8230; \u2018that\u2019s why you run with a PT belt, too?\u2019 That\u2019s why I got rid of that. It\u2019s stupid.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\t<aside class=\"smg-interstitial-link wp-block-smg-interstitial-link\">\n\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/armytimes\/news\/your-army\/2018\/09\/10\/the-army-just-killed-the-weekend-safety-brief-for-all-soldiers\/\" class=\"smg-interstitial-link__inner\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"smg-interstitial-link__media\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"300\" height=\"200\" src=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/corrosion.jpg.jpg?w=300\" class=\"smg-interstitial-link__image wp-post-image\" alt=\"\" \/>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"smg-interstitial-link__content\">\n\t\t\t\t<span class=\"smg-interstitial-link__kicker\">Related<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t<h3 class=\"smg-interstitial-link__title\">The Army just killed the weekend safety brief for all soldiers<\/h3>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p class=\"smg-interstitial-link__excerpt\">It&#039;s the Army&#039;s latest effort to reduce or eliminate administrative tasks.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/a>\n\t<\/aside>\n\t\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Then came the Army\u2019s acquisition revolution, anchored by the newly anointed Army Futures Command, tasked with the research and development for five new programs that would completely revamp its ground combat capabilities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Esper and then-Army Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Milley, who would later become his chairman of the Joint Chiefs, spent many of their evenings in what they affectionately called <a href=\"https:\/\/www.defensenews.com\/digital-show-dailies\/ausa\/2018\/10\/08\/armys-night-court-finds-25-billion-to-reinvest-in-modernization-priorities\/\">\u201cnight court,\u201d<\/a> running through lists of procurement programs and picking off all but what they deemed the most necessary.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The final body count included more than $25 billion in savings.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Months later, rumors started swirling that Esper was on the short list to replace Mattis, who had quit just before Christmas 2018.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In his resignation letter, Mattis opined that he could not be complicit in forsaking America\u2019s allies \u2015 presumably, in response to Trump\u2019s order to withdraw troops from Syria, troops who had been fighting along with local Kurds to keep the Islamic State in check.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Former Boeing executive Patrick Shanahan, Mattis\u2019s deputy, had moved into the acting role, but the feeling was that Trump might not nominate him for the top job.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Speculation came to a crashing halt last June, when details of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/pentagon-congress\/2019\/06\/18\/shanahan-out-acting-defense-secretary-withdraws-his-confirmation-bid\/\">Shanahan\u2019s decade-old, contentious divorce<\/a> leaked, and he resigned from the Pentagon entirely to head off the public glare.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Enter Esper.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cMark Esper, who is a highly respected gentleman, with a great career \u2015 West Point, Harvard \u2015 a tremendous talent,\u201d Trump told reporters outside the White House. \u201cI think he\u2019ll do very well.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He was in hot water almost immediately, as Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., grilled him mercilessly at his July 2019 confirmation hearing over his declining to promise to recuse himself from any deals with Raytheon.<\/p>\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-smg-jwplayer-video\"><atype-video-jwplayer nostick=\"true\" playlisturl=\"https:\/\/cdn.jwplayer.com\/v2\/playlists\/fCzRqMW8?tags=8741127e-9fe1-4694-9281-1c485c14fc51\" poster=\"\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/video-poster-8741127e-9fe1-4694-9281-1c485c14fc51.jpg\" aspectratio=\"16 \/ 9\" mute autostart=\"false\"><\/atype-video-jwplayer><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Ahead of his expected confirmation as Secretary of Defense, Mark Esper sparred with Senator Elizabeth Warren over his past background in the defense industry.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cThis smacks of corruption, plain and simple,\u201d Warren said. \u201cWill you commit that during your time as defense secretary that you will not seek any waiver that will allow you to participate in matters that affect Raytheon\u2019s financial interests?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He would not, he said, on the advice of DoD\u2019s lawyers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Despite the altercation, he sailed through the confirmation process and weathered the rest of the year relatively unscathed, even garnering praise for reviving the Pentagon\u2019s press briefings, which had been shut down for more than a year at the time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">While trying to keep his head down and lay the groundwork for the new national defense strategy Mattis announced in 2018, Esper took fire on the Pentagon\u2019s decision to move billions out of its counter-drug and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/your-military\/2019\/09\/03\/more-than-100-military-construction-projects-could-be-put-on-hold-to-free-up-funds-for-a-us-mexico-border-wall\/\">military construction accounts<\/a> to fund a fence along the U.S.-Mexico border.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Then 2020 came around, kicking off with Iran and the U.S. on the brink of war following the president\u2019s order to assassinate <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/your-military\/2020\/01\/03\/iran-leader-killed-in-strike-linked-to-years-of-attacks-killing-of-more-than-1000-us-troops-during-iraq-war\/\">a top Iranian general<\/a> who had masterminded countless insurgent attacks on U.S. and coalition troops fighting the Islamic State in Iraq.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Though Trump and Esper were united in their strategic decision, the cracks started to show when it came to the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/your-military\/2020\/02\/10\/more-than-100-us-troops-diagnosed-with-tbi-after-irans-attack-at-al-asad-report\/\">100-plus service members<\/a> who sustained traumatic brain injuries in Iran\u2019s revenge attack on an Iraqi air base.<\/p>\n\n\n\t<aside class=\"smg-interstitial-link wp-block-smg-interstitial-link\">\n\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/militarytimes\/news\/your-military\/2020\/01\/30\/secdef-says-he-personally-briefed-trump-on-the-seriousness-of-tbi\/\" class=\"smg-interstitial-link__inner\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"smg-interstitial-link__media\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"300\" height=\"179\" src=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/ptsd-brain-scan.jpg.jpg?w=300\" class=\"smg-interstitial-link__image wp-post-image\" alt=\"\" \/>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"smg-interstitial-link__content\">\n\t\t\t\t<span class=\"smg-interstitial-link__kicker\">Related<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t<h3 class=\"smg-interstitial-link__title\">Esper says he personally briefed Trump on the seriousness of TBI after Iran attack, now at 64 cases<\/h3>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p class=\"smg-interstitial-link__excerpt\">Defense Secretary Mark Esper says he told the president that TBI is serious.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/a>\n\t<\/aside>\n\t\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cNo, I don\u2019t consider them very serious relative to other injuries I\u2019ve seen,\u201d Trump said during a January press conference, comparing what he referred to as \u201cheadaches\u201d to the aftermath of Iranian road side bombs, including \u201cpeople with no legs and no arms.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Esper assured that he had explained to the president that so-called <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/your-military\/2020\/10\/29\/this-study-is-recruiting-troops-for-mild-tbi-research\/\">mild traumatic brain injuries<\/a> can have long-term, devastating effects.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cI\u2019ve had the chance to speak with the president. He is very concerned about the health and welfare of all of our service members \u2014 particularly those who were involved in the operations in Iraq,\u201d he said, though he did not elaborate on whether the talk came before or after Trump\u2019s statements. \u201cAnd he understands the nature of these injuries.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>Beginning of the end<\/b><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The emergence of the COVID-19 pandemic soon took over the news coming out of both the White House and the Pentagon, as Esper and the military services scrambled to put in place physical distancing regulations, testing protocols and more in an effort to keep DoD churning as it felt like the world burned around it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">After a Black man from Minneapolis, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/your-military\/2020\/07\/09\/top-pentagon-officials-offer-lessons-learned-from-militarys-response-to-george-floyd-protests\/\">George Floyd<\/a>, died at the hands of a white Minneapolis police officer, protests erupted in front of the White House, and Esper took a fateful walk across a forcefully cleared <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/your-military\/2020\/06\/07\/a-u-turn-a-rush-to-see-trump-a-day-of-tension-and-surprise\/\">Lafayette Square<\/a> so that Trump could hold up a Bible and say a few words in front of the fire-damaged St. John\u2019s Episcopal Church.<\/p>\n\n\n\t<aside class=\"smg-interstitial-link wp-block-smg-interstitial-link\">\n\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/militarytimes\/news\/your-military\/2020\/06\/04\/the-military-is-supposed-to-stay-out-of-politics-but-it-keeps-getting-dragged-in\/\" class=\"smg-interstitial-link__inner\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"smg-interstitial-link__media\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"300\" height=\"200\" src=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/AP20156116048972.jpg.jpg?w=300\" class=\"smg-interstitial-link__image wp-post-image\" alt=\"\" \/>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"smg-interstitial-link__content\">\n\t\t\t\t<span class=\"smg-interstitial-link__kicker\">Related<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t<h3 class=\"smg-interstitial-link__title\">The military is supposed to stay out of politics, but it keeps getting dragged in<\/h3>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p class=\"smg-interstitial-link__excerpt\">President Trump&#039;s enthusiastic support of sending troops in to tamp down on protests has put the Defense Department in an uncomfortable position.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/a>\n\t<\/aside>\n\t\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The following day, Esper briefed the press, trying to explain how he unknowingly walked into that political disaster.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cLook, I do everything I can to try and stay apolitical, trying to stay out of situations that may appear political,\u201d Esper said. \u201cAnd sometimes I\u2019m successful at doing that. And sometimes I\u2019m not as successful.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Then he had his first public break with the president, who had ordered active-duty troops from Fort Bragg, North Carolina, to assemble outside the D.C. area in case they were needed to put down violent protests.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cThe option to use active-duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort, and only in the most urgent and dire of situations,\u201d Esper said, strongly countering the president\u2019s threatening message. \u201cWe are not in one of those situations now. I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The president was reportedly furious.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cI was really concerned that that continued talk about Insurrection Act was going to take us in a direction, take us into a really dark direction,&#8221; Esper said. &#8220;And I wanted to make clear what I thought about the situation as secretary of defense and the role of the active-duty forces. And to kind of break the fever, if you will, because I thought that was just a moment in history where &#8230; if somebody doesn\u2019t stand up now and say something and kind of push the pause button, then &#8230; it could spiral.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When<a href=\"https:\/\/www.airforcetimes.com\/news\/your-air-force\/2020\/06\/01\/chief-wright-i-am-george-floyd-promises-review-of-air-force-justice-system\/\"> then-Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force Kaleth Wright<\/a>, who is Black, decided to speak out about his experiences as a person of color in the military, DoD couldn\u2019t put the horse back in the barn.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The services and the top levels of the Pentagon all set about creating task forces to improve diversity and inclusion within the services.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As part of that discussion, the issue of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/your-military\/2020\/07\/09\/militarys-top-officer-is-open-to-renaming-army-posts-honoring-confederate-generals\/\" target=_blank>10 Army posts named for Confederate officers<\/a> resurfaced, as it had periodically in previous years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Both Army Secretary McCarthy and Esper signaled they were open to the idea of changing them, but the president quickly shut down that idea, threatening to veto the National Defense Authorization Act if Congress tried to slip in a provision to change the names.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The other issue was the flying of the Confederate flag on DoD installations.<\/p>\n\n\n\t<aside class=\"smg-interstitial-link wp-block-smg-interstitial-link\">\n\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/militarytimes\/news\/your-military\/2020\/07\/17\/confederate-flag-effectively-banned-from-military-installations\/\" class=\"smg-interstitial-link__inner\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"smg-interstitial-link__media\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"300\" height=\"236\" src=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/635719841848562576-confederate-flag-coun-weigjpg.jpg?w=300\" class=\"smg-interstitial-link__image wp-post-image\" alt=\"\" \/>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"smg-interstitial-link__content\">\n\t\t\t\t<span class=\"smg-interstitial-link__kicker\">Related<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t<h3 class=\"smg-interstitial-link__title\">Confederate flag effectively banned from military installations<\/h3>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p class=\"smg-interstitial-link__excerpt\">Defense Secretary Mark Esper&#039;s guidance lays out which flags can be flown in public, and the criteria don&#039;t support the Confederate battle flag.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/a>\n\t<\/aside>\n\t\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cSo I thought I had a really clever way, creative way of addressing it,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In mid-July, Esper issued a memo that banned the flying of all flags other than those of U.S. states, allied countries and those of military units in all common areas, offices and otherwise public spaces on military bases.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The memo did not mention the Confederate flag by name, and so additionally effectively banned a host of other flags, from those expressing LGBTQ pride to college sports and beyond.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cSo I don\u2019t want the military politicized any which way \u2014 I don\u2019t want a Confederate flag. I don\u2019t want a Proud Boys flag \u2026 take any of your groups on the left, I don\u2019t want their flags,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">His reasoning, he said, was to take out any and all perceived politics.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cThe principle is here, what\u2019s consistent with our values. One of those values was &#8230; we don\u2019t want a flag that was aligned with an organization that, you know, committed treason against the country,\u201d he said. \u201cBut the other one is, don\u2019t be political. And so my view was, let\u2019s take a different approach: let\u2019s affirm the centrality of the U.S. flag as the flag for the U.S. military, as simple as that may be, and then everything else just doesn\u2019t have a place with us.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But the backlash was swift. In trying to avoid a controversy over allowing some political flags but not others, Esper found himself accused of a different kind of bigotry, for banning the rainbow pride flag.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cAnd yeah, I knew we knew we would take some heat for that. That\u2019s fine. But again, if you go back to the core principle: keep the military apolitical,\u201d he said. \u201cAnd as I said, to the folks at the time, if you want to come back later, and get waivers for this flag or that flag, come back. Guess what? Nobody\u2019s come back to me.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><b>The endless war<\/b><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Of course, woven through Esper\u2019s entire tenure was the specter of a full withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan, a campaign promise that Trump was intent on keeping.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Against the backdrop of Taliban peace talks, first with U.S. diplomats and then with the Afghan government, the president started issuing orders about cutting numbers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In consultation with the chain of command, the Pentagon settled on reducing troop levels from roughly 8,000 down to 4,000. From there, Esper and Milley said time and time again, it would be a conditions-based drawdown.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Just weeks ago, Milley appeared on NPR and, in his way, shot down White House National Security Adviser Robert O\u2019Brien\u2019s assertion that the drawdown was heading for 2,500.<\/p>\n\n\n\t<aside class=\"smg-interstitial-link wp-block-smg-interstitial-link\">\n\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/militarytimes\/news\/your-military\/2020\/10\/12\/milley-ducks-endorsement-of-trumps-afghanistan-exit-timeline\/\" class=\"smg-interstitial-link__inner\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"smg-interstitial-link__media\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"300\" height=\"200\" src=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/AP20092790762886.jpg.jpg?w=300\" class=\"smg-interstitial-link__image wp-post-image\" alt=\"\" \/>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"smg-interstitial-link__content\">\n\t\t\t\t<span class=\"smg-interstitial-link__kicker\">Related<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t<h3 class=\"smg-interstitial-link__title\">Milley ducks endorsement of Trump\u2019s Afghanistan exit timeline<\/h3>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p class=\"smg-interstitial-link__excerpt\">The Joint Chiefs chairman is not ready to speculate on a potential U.S. troop withdrawal from Afghanistan.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/a>\n\t<\/aside>\n\t\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cI think that, you know, Robert O\u2019Brien or anyone else can speculate as they see fit,\u201d Milley said. \u201cI\u2019m not going to engage in speculation. I\u2019m going to engage in the rigorous analysis of the situation based on the conditions and the plans that I am aware of and my conversations with the president.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Trump also waded into the discussion, tweeting that the U.S. \u201cshould\u201d have the rest of its troops home by Christmas.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Esper\u2019s office stayed as far away from the discussion as possible, as it had in countless instances where it appeared that DoD and the White House were not on the same page.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Declining to clarify anything on the record was a purposeful strategy, Esper said.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cImagine this: \u2018Disregard what the president said. This is still the plan,\u2019\u201d Esper suggested. \u201cNow, if I were the president, I\u2019d say, \u2018Really? Here you go. Here\u2019s a written piece of paper. You\u2019re coming home by December.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Esper\u2019s explanation of his thought process loudly echoed the one laid out by former <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2019\/10\/22\/books\/anonymous-op-ed-trump-book.html\" target=_blank>Homeland Security Department official Miles Taylor<\/a> in an anonymous 2018 New York Times essay, in which he described members of Trump\u2019s staff removing memos from his desk and otherwise trying to redirect the president\u2019s attention in order to keep him from doing something rash.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cYou\u2019ve got to think through steps two, three and four. And often folks don\u2019t do that,\u201d Esper said. \u201cWhy get in a mudslinging match when you\u2019re still working for the commander in chief? That doesn\u2019t get you anywhere.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the balance, in the case of the Afghanistan withdrawal, are thousands of troops and their families wondering if they are in fact coming home, or if that deployment they\u2019re planning their lives around will still happen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cIt may be a little bit uncertain for some folks, but I know the chain of command completely knows what we\u2019re doing and where we\u2019re going,\u201d Esper said.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Have other defense secretaries had to spend this much time trying to balance the president\u2019s demands with their very real consequences to national security?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cProbably not,\u201d he said. \u201cI don\u2019t know, I\u2019ve only worked for a couple.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But he has no regrets about how he handled himself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cAt the end of the day, it\u2019s as I said \u2014 you\u2019ve got to pick your fights,\u201d he said. \u201cI could have a fight over anything, and I could make it a big fight, and I could live with that \u2014 why? Who\u2019s going to come in behind me? It\u2019s going to be a real \u2018yes man.\u2019 And then God help us.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" width=\"200\" height=\"113\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/yRFC7chqRIw?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen title=\"Joint Chiefs chair apologizes for Lafayette Square photo op\"><\/iframe>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Defense Secretary Mark Esper called Military Times for a lengthy discussion of his time in office.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":7,"featured_media":69140,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_yoast_wpseo_meta-robots-noindex":"","_yoast_wpseo_meta-robots-nofollow":"","_yoast_wpseo_canonical":"","_acf":"","_yoast_wpseo_primary_category":19,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","_smg_distribution_targets":[]},"categories":[160,11,36,19,48],"tags":[],"coauthors":[3356],"class_list":["post-31366","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-daily-news-roundup","category-global","category-newsletters","category-pentagon","category-the-americas"],"acf":{"subheadline":"","legacy_arc_id":"5PWFLBRIQJGURAQE2AEJOUR3MY","arc_canonical_url":"\/news\/your-military\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/","remove_feature_photo":false,"is_sponsored":false,"subtype":"","redirect_url":"","disable_inline_ads":false,"native_logo_pretext":"Presented By:"},"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v26.0 (Yoast SEO v28.1) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Exclusive: Esper, on his way out, says he was no yes man - Defense News<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Defense Secretary Mark Esper called Military Times for a lengthy discussion of his time in office.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Exclusive: Esper, on his way out, says he was no yes man\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Defense Secretary Mark Esper called Military Times for a lengthy discussion of his time in office.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Defense News\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2020-11-09T18:34:10+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2026-08-08T07:05:31+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Meghann Myers\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Meghann Myers\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"17 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\n\t    \"@context\": \"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\n\t    \"@graph\": [\n\t        {\n\t            \"@type\": \"Article\",\n\t            \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/pentagon\\\/2020\\\/11\\\/09\\\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\\\/#article\",\n\t            \"isPartOf\": {\n\t                \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/pentagon\\\/2020\\\/11\\\/09\\\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\\\/\"\n\t            },\n\t            \"author\": {\n\t                \"name\": \"migration\",\n\t                \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/cc76c831bb37a926738c8391fca7a3b1\"\n\t            },\n\t            \"headline\": \"Exclusive: Esper, on his way out, says he was no yes man\",\n\t            \"datePublished\": \"2020-11-09T18:34:10+00:00\",\n\t            \"dateModified\": \"2026-08-08T07:05:31+00:00\",\n\t            \"mainEntityOfPage\": {\n\t                \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/pentagon\\\/2020\\\/11\\\/09\\\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\\\/\"\n\t            },\n\t            \"wordCount\": 3433,\n\t            \"commentCount\": 0,\n\t            \"publisher\": {\n\t                \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/#organization\"\n\t            },\n\t            \"image\": {\n\t                \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/pentagon\\\/2020\\\/11\\\/09\\\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\\\/#primaryimage\"\n\t            },\n\t            \"thumbnailUrl\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/08\\\/49967501917_3ccce4d952_k.jpg.jpg\",\n\t            \"articleSection\": [\n\t                \"Daily News Roundup\",\n\t                \"Global\",\n\t                \"Newsletters\",\n\t                \"Pentagon\",\n\t                \"The Americas\"\n\t            ],\n\t            \"inLanguage\": \"en-US\",\n\t            \"potentialAction\": [\n\t                {\n\t                    \"@type\": \"CommentAction\",\n\t                    \"name\": \"Comment\",\n\t                    \"target\": [\n\t                        \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/pentagon\\\/2020\\\/11\\\/09\\\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\\\/#respond\"\n\t                    ]\n\t                }\n\t            ]\n\t        },\n\t        {\n\t            \"@type\": \"WebPage\",\n\t            \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/pentagon\\\/2020\\\/11\\\/09\\\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\\\/\",\n\t            \"url\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/pentagon\\\/2020\\\/11\\\/09\\\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\\\/\",\n\t            \"name\": \"Exclusive: Esper, on his way out, says he was no yes man - Defense News\",\n\t            \"isPartOf\": {\n\t                \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/#website\"\n\t            },\n\t            \"primaryImageOfPage\": {\n\t                \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/pentagon\\\/2020\\\/11\\\/09\\\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\\\/#primaryimage\"\n\t            },\n\t            \"image\": {\n\t                \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/pentagon\\\/2020\\\/11\\\/09\\\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\\\/#primaryimage\"\n\t            },\n\t            \"thumbnailUrl\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/08\\\/49967501917_3ccce4d952_k.jpg.jpg\",\n\t            \"datePublished\": \"2020-11-09T18:34:10+00:00\",\n\t            \"dateModified\": \"2026-08-08T07:05:31+00:00\",\n\t            \"description\": \"Defense Secretary Mark Esper called Military Times for a lengthy discussion of his time in office.\",\n\t            \"breadcrumb\": {\n\t                \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/pentagon\\\/2020\\\/11\\\/09\\\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\\\/#breadcrumb\"\n\t            },\n\t            \"inLanguage\": \"en-US\",\n\t            \"potentialAction\": [\n\t                {\n\t                    \"@type\": \"ReadAction\",\n\t                    \"target\": [\n\t                        \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/pentagon\\\/2020\\\/11\\\/09\\\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\\\/\"\n\t                    ]\n\t                }\n\t            ]\n\t        },\n\t        {\n\t            \"@type\": \"ImageObject\",\n\t            \"inLanguage\": \"en-US\",\n\t            \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/pentagon\\\/2020\\\/11\\\/09\\\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\\\/#primaryimage\",\n\t            \"url\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/08\\\/49967501917_3ccce4d952_k.jpg.jpg\",\n\t            \"contentUrl\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/08\\\/49967501917_3ccce4d952_k.jpg.jpg\"\n\t        },\n\t        {\n\t            \"@type\": \"BreadcrumbList\",\n\t            \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/pentagon\\\/2020\\\/11\\\/09\\\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\\\/#breadcrumb\",\n\t            \"itemListElement\": [\n\t                {\n\t                    \"@type\": \"ListItem\",\n\t                    \"position\": 1,\n\t                    \"name\": \"Home\",\n\t                    \"item\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/\",\n\t                    \"ad_zone\": \"home\"\n\t                },\n\t                {\n\t                    \"@type\": \"ListItem\",\n\t                    \"position\": 2,\n\t                    \"name\": \"Pentagon\",\n\t                    \"item\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/pentagon\\\/\",\n\t                    \"ad_zone\": \"pentagon\"\n\t                },\n\t                {\n\t                    \"@type\": \"ListItem\",\n\t                    \"position\": 3,\n\t                    \"name\": \"Exclusive: Esper, on his way out, says he was no yes man\"\n\t                }\n\t            ]\n\t        },\n\t        {\n\t            \"@type\": \"WebSite\",\n\t            \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/#website\",\n\t            \"url\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/\",\n\t            \"name\": \"Defense News\",\n\t            \"description\": \"Covering the politics, business and technology of defense | Defense News\",\n\t            \"publisher\": {\n\t                \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/#organization\"\n\t            },\n\t            \"potentialAction\": [\n\t                {\n\t                    \"@type\": \"SearchAction\",\n\t                    \"target\": {\n\t                        \"@type\": \"EntryPoint\",\n\t                        \"urlTemplate\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/?s={search_term_string}\"\n\t                    },\n\t                    \"query-input\": {\n\t                        \"@type\": \"PropertyValueSpecification\",\n\t                        \"valueRequired\": true,\n\t                        \"valueName\": \"search_term_string\"\n\t                    }\n\t                }\n\t            ],\n\t            \"inLanguage\": \"en-US\"\n\t        },\n\t        {\n\t            \"@type\": \"Organization\",\n\t            \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/#organization\",\n\t            \"name\": \"Defense News\",\n\t            \"url\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/\",\n\t            \"logo\": {\n\t                \"@type\": \"ImageObject\",\n\t                \"inLanguage\": \"en-US\",\n\t                \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/logo\\\/image\\\/\",\n\t                \"url\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/06\\\/defensenews-logo-white.png\",\n\t                \"contentUrl\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2026\\\/06\\\/defensenews-logo-white.png\",\n\t                \"caption\": \"Defense News\"\n\t            },\n\t            \"image\": {\n\t                \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/logo\\\/image\\\/\"\n\t            }\n\t        },\n\t        {\n\t            \"@type\": \"Person\",\n\t            \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/cc76c831bb37a926738c8391fca7a3b1\",\n\t            \"name\": \"migration\",\n\t            \"image\": {\n\t                \"@type\": \"ImageObject\",\n\t                \"inLanguage\": \"en-US\",\n\t                \"@id\": \"https:\\\/\\\/secure.gravatar.com\\\/avatar\\\/9e8d47be443ce94ce7fc357677b5f9c70235bb1f59e7267a102a74af58c04f59?s=96&d=mm&r=gcf4cb6ee0ec29e49e7a963234e4340ec\",\n\t                \"url\": \"https:\\\/\\\/secure.gravatar.com\\\/avatar\\\/9e8d47be443ce94ce7fc357677b5f9c70235bb1f59e7267a102a74af58c04f59?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\n\t                \"contentUrl\": \"https:\\\/\\\/secure.gravatar.com\\\/avatar\\\/9e8d47be443ce94ce7fc357677b5f9c70235bb1f59e7267a102a74af58c04f59?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\n\t                \"caption\": \"migration\"\n\t            },\n\t            \"url\": \"https:\\\/\\\/one.sightlinemg.com\\\/defensenews\\\/author\\\/migration\\\/\"\n\t        }\n\t    ]\n\t}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO Premium plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Exclusive: Esper, on his way out, says he was no yes man - Defense News","description":"Defense Secretary Mark Esper called Military Times for a lengthy discussion of his time in office.","robots":{"index":"noindex","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Exclusive: Esper, on his way out, says he was no yes man","og_description":"Defense Secretary Mark Esper called Military Times for a lengthy discussion of his time in office.","og_url":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/","og_site_name":"Defense News","article_published_time":"2020-11-09T18:34:10+00:00","article_modified_time":"2026-08-08T07:05:31+00:00","author":"Meghann Myers","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Meghann Myers","Est. reading time":"17 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/"},"author":{"name":"migration","@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/#\/schema\/person\/cc76c831bb37a926738c8391fca7a3b1"},"headline":"Exclusive: Esper, on his way out, says he was no yes man","datePublished":"2020-11-09T18:34:10+00:00","dateModified":"2026-08-08T07:05:31+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/"},"wordCount":3433,"commentCount":0,"publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/#organization"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/49967501917_3ccce4d952_k.jpg.jpg","articleSection":["Daily News Roundup","Global","Newsletters","Pentagon","The Americas"],"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"CommentAction","name":"Comment","target":["https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/#respond"]}]},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/","url":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/","name":"Exclusive: Esper, on his way out, says he was no yes man - Defense News","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/49967501917_3ccce4d952_k.jpg.jpg","datePublished":"2020-11-09T18:34:10+00:00","dateModified":"2026-08-08T07:05:31+00:00","description":"Defense Secretary Mark Esper called Military Times for a lengthy discussion of his time in office.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/49967501917_3ccce4d952_k.jpg.jpg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/49967501917_3ccce4d952_k.jpg.jpg"},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/2020\/11\/09\/exclusive-esper-on-his-way-out-says-he-was-no-yes-man\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/","ad_zone":"home"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Pentagon","item":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/pentagon\/","ad_zone":"pentagon"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":3,"name":"Exclusive: Esper, on his way out, says he was no yes man"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/#website","url":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/","name":"Defense News","description":"Covering the politics, business and technology of defense | Defense News","publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/#organization"},"potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Organization","@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/#organization","name":"Defense News","url":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/defensenews-logo-white.png","contentUrl":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/06\/defensenews-logo-white.png","caption":"Defense News"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/"}},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/#\/schema\/person\/cc76c831bb37a926738c8391fca7a3b1","name":"migration","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/9e8d47be443ce94ce7fc357677b5f9c70235bb1f59e7267a102a74af58c04f59?s=96&d=mm&r=gcf4cb6ee0ec29e49e7a963234e4340ec","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/9e8d47be443ce94ce7fc357677b5f9c70235bb1f59e7267a102a74af58c04f59?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/9e8d47be443ce94ce7fc357677b5f9c70235bb1f59e7267a102a74af58c04f59?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"migration"},"url":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/author\/migration\/"}]}},"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"distributor_meta":false,"distributor_terms":false,"distributor_media":false,"distributor_original_site_name":"Defense News","distributor_original_site_url":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews","push-errors":false,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/49967501917_3ccce4d952_k.jpg.jpg","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/31366","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/7"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=31366"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/31366\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":79101,"href":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/31366\/revisions\/79101"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/69140"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=31366"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=31366"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=31366"},{"taxonomy":"author","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/defensenews\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/coauthors?post=31366"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}