{"id":24286,"date":"2022-12-01T01:32:43","date_gmt":"2022-12-01T01:32:43","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/federaltimes\/uncategorized\/2022\/12\/01\/no-altitude-advice-before-historic-military-plane-crash-in-dallas\/"},"modified":"2026-08-07T21:16:38","modified_gmt":"2026-08-07T21:16:38","slug":"no-altitude-advice-before-historic-military-plane-crash-in-dallas","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/one.sightlinemg.com\/federaltimes\/federal-oversight\/2022\/12\/01\/no-altitude-advice-before-historic-military-plane-crash-in-dallas\/","title":{"rendered":"No altitude advice before historic military plane crash in Dallas"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">DALLAS \u2014 Just before a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/news\/your-military\/2022\/11\/13\/six-killed-after-vintage-military-aircraft-collide-at-dallas-air-show\/\" target=\"_blank\">midair collision that killed six at a Dallas air show<\/a>, a group of historic fighter planes was told to fly ahead of a formation of bombers without any prior plan for coordinating altitude, according to a federal report released Wednesday. The report did not give a cause of the crash.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A P-63 Kingcobra fighter was banking left when it struck a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.militarytimes.com\/off-duty\/military-culture\/2019\/11\/11\/crews-of-the-b-17-flying-fortress-take-to-the-sky-in-memphis-belle-in-color-documentary\/\" target=\"_blank\">B-17 Flying Fortress<\/a> bomber behind the left wing during the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.airforcetimes.com\/home\/2022\/11\/12\/historic-military-planes-collide-at-at-dallas-air-show\/\" target=\"_blank\">Nov. 12 air show<\/a> featuring World War II-era planes, the National Transportation Safety Board said in its preliminary findings. All six people aboard the planes \u2014 the pilot of the fighter and the bomber\u2019s pilot, co-pilot and three crew members \u2014 died as both aircraft broke apart in flight, with the bomber catching fire and then exploding on impact.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There had been no coordination of altitudes in briefings before the flight or while the planes were in the air, the NTSB said. The report said that the Kingcobra was the third in a formation of three fighters and the B-17 was the lead of a five-ship bomber formation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Eric Weiss, an NTSB spokesperson, said the agency is trying to determine the sequence of maneuvers that led to the crash. It is also examining whether such air shows normally have altitude deconfliction plans.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cThose are precisely the types of questions our investigators are asking,\u201d Weiss said. \u201cWhat was the process? What\u2019s the correct process? And what happened?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">John Cox, a former airline captain with more than 50 years\u2019 experience, was surprised that the NTSB found there wasn\u2019t an altitude deconfliction brief before or during the flight. He said these take place in other air shows, but he\u2019s not certain whether they\u2019re standard for the Commemorative Air Force, which put on the Wings over Dallas show.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A person familiar with the show\u2019s operations that day said the air crews were given general altitude direction in their morning pre-show briefing. However, there was not a discussion of specific altitudes for each pass the aircraft were going to perform, said the person, who was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly and did so on condition of anonymity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Typically fighters fly above bombers, and when a group is called to make a pass that could put planes at the same or nearly the same altitudes, they maintain a lateral separation from each other, the person said. In general, the person continued, it\u2019s the responsibility of the air boss to set out a plan for maintaining either vertical or lateral separation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Wings Over Dallas was the group\u2019s last show of the season, the person said.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The NTSB said the fighter formation had been told by the air boss to proceed to a line that was 500 feet (152 meters) from where the audience was lined up at Dallas Executive Airport, while the bomber formation was told to fly 1,000 feet (304 meters) from the audience viewing area.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The NTSB said a navigation device on the bomber \u201ccontained position information relevant to the accident\u201d but a device on the fighter didn\u2019t record during the flight.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The Commemorative Air Force, which put on the show for Veterans Day, did not immediately respond Wednesday to a request for comment on the report. It previously identified the victims as: Terry Barker, Craig Hutain, Kevin \u201cK5\u2033 Michels, Dan Ragan, Leonard \u201cLen\u201d Root and Curt Rowe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">All the men were volunteers who had gone through a strict process of logging hours and training flights and were vetted carefully, Hank Coates, CEO of Commemorative Air Force, said after the crash.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Cox said the planes were flown by experienced pilots and that it\u2019s \u201cvirtually certain\u201d the pilot of the smaller, more maneuverable fighter didn\u2019t see the bomber. He said understanding how this happened will be a central challenge for investigators.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">\u201cWhat happened for two pilots of this skill level to end up in the same airspace at the same time?\u201d said Cox, the founder of Safety Operating Systems, which helps smaller airlines and corporate flight services around the world with safety planning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The air show collision came three years after the <a href=\"https:\/\/apnews.com\/article\/connecticut-hartford-accidents-transportation-8d48d898ee86ee0395c8895b3d91daf4\" target=\"_blank\">crash of a bomber in Connecticut<\/a> that killed seven, and <a href=\"https:\/\/apnews.com\/article\/technology-business-texas-europe-5c93fe93af4cb94dc108427c9a141983\" target=\"_blank\">amid ongoing concern<\/a> about the safety of shows involving older warplanes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The B-17, a cornerstone of U.S. air power during World War II, is an immense four-engine bomber that was used in daylight raids against Germany. The Kingcobra, a U.S. fighter, was used mostly by Soviet forces during the war. Most B-17s were scrapped at the end of World War II and only a handful remain today, largely featured at museums and air shows, according to Boeing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><i>Associated Press writer Tara Copp in Washington contributed to this report.<\/i><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A preliminary NTSB report says no guidance was given on altitudes before a World War II-era fighter plane crashed into a bomber at a Dallas air 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