Several readers penned letters to the editor for the Oct. 26 through Nov. 9 issues of Marine Corps Times, ranging from women in combat to presidential contender Donald Trump’s background.
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TRUMP AND THE MILITARY
Most veterans rolled their eyes with disdain when they heard Donald Trump attempt to equate his Vietnam-era experience at a military prep school with actual military experience. But should his military record be judged so quickly and harshly?
The truth is that for those who served in the military during the Vietnam era, there could be vast differences in experience. Some may have received limited training; others may have taken part in fierce combat.
Many authors and pundits seem to place military experience in one of two camps: those who did not serve in the military, and those who did. Since Donald Trump did not serve in the military, no credit is given for his experience with military-type discipline and lifestyle at a prep school. But, arguably, his military prep school experience should not be discarded out of hand while at the same time treating all military experience of true veterans with little distinction.
An authoritative reference book from 1978, “Chance and Circumstance: The Draft, the War and the Vietnam Generation” by Lawrence M. Baskir and William A Strauss, documents the disparities in military service that existed during the Vietnam War. The following quotes from that book illustrate the wide disparities in military experiences that occurred during the Vietnam War:
“At the peak of the war, waiting lists were long, reflecting the popularity of the National Guard and reserves as sanctuaries from the draft. Many draft-vulnerable men who became guardsmen or reservists were able to leapfrog these lists by having influential persons nominate them to fill the rare vacancies.”
“Training for the National Guard or reserves was neither as rigorous nor as thorough as that given the active forces. Often, reservists had to train with outmoded equipment and then read books or watch movies to learn how to use the modern equivalents.”
“If he had sufficient education and a high enough IQ to meet their tougher enlistment standards, a draft-vulnerable man could also reduce his chances of engaging in combat by joining the Coast Guard, Navy or Air Force.”
“Generally, combat missions in these services involved volunteers — officers who had become pilots or patrol boat commanders with full knowledge of the risks involved, or enlisted men who willingly accepted hazardous duty. For others, the risk of combat was minimal. Altogether, the risk of dying in Vietnam was nineteen times as great for Marine and Army troops as for Navy and Air Force men.”
A “Notre Dame survey found that two-thirds of all enlistees in these branches were motivated, at least in part, by the desire to avoid Vietnam, even if this meant a three- or four-year enlistment instead of the two years served by most draftees. As one sailor commented, ‘There ain’t no Viet Cong submarines.’”
My personal military experience easily can be viewed as exceeding that of Donald Trump, but I view it in a relative sense. Shortly after completing a Platoon Leaders Class officer candidate program in the summer of 1966, I learned that the Marine Corps had openings in its law program and transferred into that specialized field.
When a buddy of mine, Marine 1st Lt. Lee Roy Herron, died heroically in Vietnam in 1969 (receiving a posthumous Navy Cross), I was safely attending law school in the U.S. My subsequent three years’ active duty in the Marine Corps from 1971 through 1973 were uneventful other than spending my final year of duty on the island of Okinawa, being stationed there with the 3d Marine Division when the Vietnam War ended in late January 1973.
I did not serve in Vietnam, never saw combat and received no awards for valor. It is difficult for me to totally discount Donald Trump’s military-type experience when my personal experience is woefully limited compared with so many who fought for this country, many dying, being severely wounded or becoming POWs in the process.
Perhaps others also might think twice before judging Donald Trump’s military record. Or should we just treat all Vietnam-era military veterans as heroes and harshly judge anyone who did not serve during that time?
Former Capt. David L. Nelson
Houston
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SERVICE TRUMPS SCHOOL
Regarding the Oct. 26 letter to the editor by former Marine Capt. David L. Nelson, “Trump and the military”: I cannot get over the anger this article provoked. Trump’s military school cannot equate with service in the military — war zone or not!
To belittle the honorable service of Navy, Coast Guard and Air Force personnel borders on absurdity! Ask a real captain, such as [Sen.] John McCain — who, by the way, was harshly criticized by Trump for being a prisoner of war — or the many hospital corpsmen, or those from other branches who served if they get involved in childish mudslinging.
Nelson is way off base. He could have volunteered for duty in Vietnam, as many of us did but were never called to duty there.
I have nothing but respect for the many Marines, soldiers and all those of other services who were captured, wounded and gave their lives for those of us who were not there. I have nothing but contempt for Nelson’s criticism of any military man or woman.
Navy RMCS Francis E. Hopton (ret.)
Little Compton, R.I.
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STANDARDS ARE WHAT MATTERS
As a former Marine and combat veteran, I am going to have to say that I am OK with the gender-neutral standards as long as they aren’t easier than the current standards.
I have gone through boot camp and the School of Infantry, and I have to be honest. Neither one was really that difficult. Some of the training we did in the fleet for our work-ups, a combined arms exercise, for example, was much easier than anything we did in SOI.
I would definitely agree with making the requirements more difficult. There were Marines in SOI and boot camp who barely passed, then went into the fleet to be totally incapable of performing in the infantry. Most times they couldn’t even keep up during PT.
The bottom line, which everyone needs to remember, is that combat is difficult. It’s physically, mentally and emotionally grueling. So, to prepare our Marines for that experience, which is what the training is meant for, we must put them through something equally or more grueling than combat to ensure they are ready. Gender shouldn’t be the issue. I’m sure there are plenty of female Marines who can do just as well as the men, and the opportunity should be available to them. But you cannot lower the standards, especially for training meant for combat occupational specialties.
Cpl. Andrew Hasty (ret.)
Lowell, Ind.
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LISTEN TO MILITARY PROS
The fix must be in. I originally thought Navy Secretary Ray Mabus had lost his mind on the subject of women serving in direct ground combat. I now believe he has a cattle prod behind him: Defense Secretary Ash Carter [“Carter sounds nearly ready to open combat jobs to women,” Oct. 19].
Carter told U.S. troops in Italy limiting his search for qualified military candidates to just half the population would be “crazy.” Do the Pittsburgh Steelers think the same thing? Maybe they should start recruiting at Wellesley College. The Marine Corps has no issues getting qualified infantrymen. In fact, for those who sign up today, it takes six to nine months just to get to boot camp due to the large number of poolees. Additionally, if you talk to Marine Corps recruiters, they will tell you the infantry jobs are among the first selected.
Carter should listen to the military professionals. They do not have an agenda and just want the best, most reliable forces at the cheapest price.
Women are more likely to get hurt, will cost their units days for lost time and will be more expensive in terms of logistics, medical costs and long-term rehabilitation.
I realize in that in the SecDef’s travels, the services will tell him things are great, smile and be relieved when he goes home so they can get back to normal business. Most won’t look him directly in the eye — except the Marine Corps — and tell him this potential decision is wrong.
But this decision will cost lives, whether it is five years from now or 50. Somebody will get killed.
I am afraid of this scenario. They integrate women into line units, do speeches, get some TV time, slap all their supporters on the back and tell everyone that we “now have the best fighting force available.” The real results of that decision won’t be seen until we get an opponent like the Germans or Japanese in World War II. The butchery was unimaginable, and, frankly, I highly doubt many women, even trained ones, could participate in the savagery required.
Col. Brad Lowe (ret.)
Dumfries, Va.
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EXPERIENCE DISCOUNTED
The grass on the civilian side is not, I repeat, not greener. There are many reasons why, but one that I hear about from other veterans, and have experienced myself, is that you lose out on real friendships. Even if you don’t like the Marine next to you, he or she is your brother or sister.
What you have to look forward to in the civilian world: People who think they are intelligent because they paid tens of thousands of dollars for a piece of paper, but have no life experience, are telling you how to do things (in the most backwards way, I might add). Let’s face it, the reality is they didn’t gain leadership experience in the Marines and even Private Shmuckatelli could lead better than them. They can’t tell you the difference between a leader and a boss. It is soul-sucking to be in this position.
Your time in the Corps is not as valued as everyone would have you believe. Not too many people this day and age can even begin to understand how we as Marines function and what we’ve had to endure. They underestimate your abilities unless it involves manhandling an object. What they don’t realize is that the Defense Department, with the largest budget in the world, developed and contributed to your leadership training.
We possess leadership skills that completely sidestep their illogical beliefs of how to get things done.
But here is the scary part. I EAS’d in 2007 and have made two attempts to get back in, unsuccessfully. I am now on my third attempt, even though I know my chances are slim. I can’t wrap my head around it. I was trained, I served honorably, I have the experience, yet a recruit out of high school has a better chance of getting into the Corps than I, or other veterans, do.
So maybe the Corps is the one who no longer values our time served.
Former Sgt. Brandon Garabedian
Glendale, Calif.
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WISDOM IS HARD-WON
In response to “Experience discounted” by former Sgt. Brandon Garabedian [from Oct. 26]:
I understand some of the frustrations in the disconnect between a Marine’s lived experience and civilians’ perceptions of a Marine’s experience. However, it is only deepening the gorge to belittle their practices instead of translating your experience into “civilian-ese.”
The Corps taught you to improvise, adapt and overcome; now you must apply those lessons in a new environment. You must leverage your discipline and experience in a method that your new peers find beneficial to the organizational culture.
To reconnect with the collegiality you miss from your time in service, I recommend becoming active in the VFW, American Legion, Marine Corps Association and various other organizations whose members are composed primarily of veterans who appreciate and understand your time in the service. It also is an excellent tool for networking.
The Corps is not discounting your time served. Your lesson is hard-learned, and you should share that wisdom with the new/next generation of Marines.
The young men and women out of high school rightfully possess head-of-line privileges to enter the ranks of the Marine Corps. These young Americans are afforded the same opportunity to earn the title of Marine with which you were provided. Realization in reflection that your choice is now regrettable should not be at the expense of denying a new generation of Marines the opportunity to serve in the same Corps you so evidently cherish.
Master Sgt. Daniel Attilio (ret.)
Tulsa, Okla.
